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PHCoosmom: Folks, tonight we welcome Dr. Brian Speers a very experienced avian vet. PHCoosmom: Dr. Speers is a co author of Birds for Dummies. PHGinger: with my favorite author PHCoosmom: Welcome to The aviary Dr. Speers. DrBrianSpeer: Thanks! What's on the menu for tonite? DDix0058_nr: bird seed, pellets, and veggies! PHCoosmom: I think Questions and answers if you do not mind Dr Speers. PHCoosmom: Remember folks, this is protocol chat. Indicate you have a question for Dr. Speers with a ? and a comment with a !. PHCoosmom: Your name will be called in order. DrBrianSpeer: Q and A is fine. Ready?? PHGinger: Who has the first question? Put a ? into the room DDix0058_nr: ? PHGinger: DDix - GA PHGinger: that's Go Ahead PHCoosmom: ? DDix0058_nr: Ihave a friend that has several birds and a few cats with a bit of a flea problem. What's the best way to get rid of fleas without harming the birds? DrBrianSpeer: All of the topical flea products like Advangage, etc are fine for use on the cats, and none will pose harm to the birds in the home. It is the pesticides that pose more risk if sprayed about the home, in general. DrBrianSpeer: So, what do you all feed your pet parrots? DDix0058_nr: ! DDix0058_nr: Veggies, fruits, pellets and cooked foods, birdie bread PHCoosmom: Okay DrBrianSpeer: Anyone else? DrBrianSpeer: Seed mix based diets for any bird? PHXue: ! PHAbymom: No parrots here... just wild ones DrBrianSpeer: soaked or cooked foods regularly? PHCoosmom: Dr. Speers, Mine get a seed based mix, pellets veggies and a warm cookd mix at night. Wendy_nr: ! PHCoosmom: Xue please PHXue: yep, I give a variety, seed based (Higgins) plus fresh fruits and veggies PHXue: usually, what's in season PHCoosmom: Wendy, please. DrBrianSpeer: Anyone see any potential problems with the general diets described? jake_nr: rice veggie bean or pasta fruit mix, seeds, nuts, pellets daily here PHXue: ! PHCoosmom: ! Wendy_nr: ! my m2 wont eat seeds or pellets so he gets all the rest of the above PHCoosmom: Xue PHXue: well, each bird has different needs, so it needs to be based on the individual bird sleepy319: ? PHXue: some are prone to fatty liver or various diseases PHXue: and, it depends on their lifestyle PHCoosmom: !. PHXue: so, I try to keep that in mind DrBrianSpeer: Yes, there are risks of nutritionally mediated disease - - even with the decent-sounding diets described here. Wendy_nr: ? PHCoosmom: Sleepy you have a question? sleepy319: should i cook the veggie pasta or leave it uncooked DrBrianSpeer: At least no one is feeding seed / nuts only to their pet parrots, or not admitting to it. DrBrianSpeer: Good question, sleepy DrBrianSpeer: That somewhat depends on the nature of your bird's relationship with you, the rest of the diet, and the frequency and volume you are feeding. PHAbymom: Hi Gina DrBrianSpeer: Cooked, warm pasta / veggies daily or multiple times during the day - can set the stage for reproductive stimulation in males or females, as you are simulating potentially regurgitative feeding. sophiesmom_nr: ? ginaspadafor_nr: Hi all! Hi Dr. Speer, my darling co-author! PHCoosmom: Dr. Speers, I would like to take a minute to introduce your co author. Folks, welcome Gina Spadofor. DDix0058_nr: Hi Gina! PHXue: HI GINA!! (I have your book!) DrBrianSpeer: That could lead to egg laying, and other reproductive tract issues (Sex and the Single Bird), or agression, etc in the males. PHCatByte: hi, gina! Rolindice73: welcome gina! DrBrianSpeer: Good evening, Gina! Wendy_nr: what do you recommend as a good safe diet for birds? ginaspadafor_nr: :) sleepy319: ? Wendy_nr: Hi gina PHXue: ? ginaspadafor_nr: ? DrBrianSpeer: High carbohydrates can "carb load" and also lead to obesity, reproductive stimulation, too. DrBrianSpeer: A good, safe base diet would be low calorie, not regularly warm or cooked, and balanced. PHCoosmom: xue, Your question please. PHXue: That reminds me, the sweet potato/yam possibly contributing to feather plucking DrBrianSpeer: Generally, this would include a formulated pellet base, veggies, limited fruits, limited nuts/seed, limited pastas. PHXue: I know sweet potatoes and yams are different PHXue: do the sweet potatoes cause the same problems? DrBrianSpeer: Sweet potatoes / yams = carbohydrate rich, can and will lead to excessive energy if allowed to be a regular and prominent part of the diet, and can lead to reproductive drive problems and secondary displacement behaivoral problems, which in part can include feather damaging behaivor. PHCoosmom: ? William_nr: ? PHCoosmom: Wendy, your question please DrBrianSpeer: The problem is not with the sweet potatoes, specifically. it is with the energy and the possible regurgitative signals that the food item sends. Make sense? PHXue: somewhat, but I thought there was a difference in whether it was sweet potatoes or yams PHXue: so, it's pretty confusing DDix0058_nr: ? Wendy_nr: how do I try to get my bird to eat pellets --he beaks them out of the bowl each time DrBrianSpeer: I don't think that there is a biggie difference. Think basics, here, not confusing, mysterious stuff. DrBrianSpeer: Hyperactive kids do better if they do not eat high energy foods and candies, right? DrBrianSpeer: Same would go for pet parrots. In principle. Rolindice73: ? PHXue: I was thinking about the pseudoestrogens in the yams DrBrianSpeer: Teaching your bird to eat a proper diet requires foraging-type training. Get the bird out with you on a training perch. Eat a pellet or two, offer to share them, and then co-chew on a pellet or two. Don't beg - - but make it into a social "flock"thing. This is their instinctive behavior to forage with their con-specific flock members, and they WILL learn. DrBrianSpeer: Don't think too hard about those phytoestrogens - potentially real, at best. sophiesmom_nr: ? PHCoosmom: Sophie, your question please PHXue: ty DrBrianSpeer: Excessive energy and dietary overload of calories is a major given, that surprisingly is underrated in preference for those potential, maybe, possible things like the phytoestrogen thingie. Wendy_nr: ty ginaspadafor_nr: ? sophiesmom_nr: I have a rescued Goffins that was almost totally plucked when I got her. She is now almost fully feathered but...she was on a very poor diet and I have switched her to a better "made for parrot" seed mix and tried my best to switch to pellets and I add veggies and pastas. DDix0058_nr: ? sophiesmom_nr: But she is not interested in much else. Any suggestion? DrBrianSpeer: Dietary stability is a part of longevity - right? sophiesmom_nr: yes DrBrianSpeer: Goffin's are VERY smart. DrBrianSpeer: Gotta make them work, and give them lots of jobs, for sure. One can be working to train proper diet via foraging, and make the bird work hard to solve puzzles, and do other activities to obtain those harder-to-obtain regular "goodies" that they are used to. The combined approach is very effective. sophiesmom_nr: Here is the other issue. She is 10, abused, cage bound for 5 years so she isn't that "friendly" when it comes to making her do anything or trying to train her. she is very stubborn sophiesmom_nr: She does step up now but that was an easy one to accomplish. DrBrianSpeer: Work to progressively gain and maintain trust. sophiesmom_nr: ok...ty DrBrianSpeer: Continue to build on that relationship. DrBrianSpeer: Add in foraging training and dietary conversion efforts during this timeline. PHCoosmom: Gina, your question please. DrBrianSpeer: Work to teach more foraging and "working"activities. sophiesmom_nr: ty dr speer ginaspadafor_nr: Hi Dr. Speer! Hi from Eddie the caique. Hi PH'ers. Always love Chat Week. Dr. Speer, you actually answered my question, re: working for food. It is really improving Eddie's attitude. :) DrBrianSpeer: Great! :-) PHCoosmom: Sleepy, your question please. DrBrianSpeer: Eddie is a really really cool and BUSY little guy. sleepy319: i have a male yr old brown throat conure are you saying not to give this to him or give it to him not as often what is a good diet to feed my conure daily? i give him pellets and veeggies, and seeds he loves peas, lima beans, stringbeans and what about corn can he eat that some birds are allergic how can i tell? i always eat infront of max and he is more willing to try a new veggie if he see me ate it first DrBrianSpeer: The base diet you describe for your brown throated conure sounds fine. sleepy319: thanks DrBrianSpeer: From there, consider taking some of his "favorites" and making him forage and work to find them, to get access to them, and to even continue to work harder to get them. DDix0058_nr: Am I not being seen here? DrBrianSpeer: These activities engage their minds, can enrich their activity with or without our presence, and fulfill their daily mental activities. PHCoosmom: DD, your question. DDix0058_nr: So foods should be room temp or cooler? Is there a time when foods should be given warm? DrBrianSpeer: Parrots in the wild do not really just eat a balance food product from a food bowl.They have to work, and this foraging work is what is a part of their natural biology. By enriching and encouraging this activity, they are much, much, better off, generally. DrBrianSpeer: Occasional warm foods are ok - I would not encourage them to be predictable or regular events, though. DrBrianSpeer: Room temperatures are generally fine. DDix0058_nr: I am not good at having my bird forage, I think because I am not sure how to go about it, any suggetions? DrBrianSpeer: There will be an EXCELLENT class in Denver at the Gabriel Foundation in a couple of months, where we will teach foraging, clicker traiing, and other aspects of behavioral guidance - if you are able to attend. DrBrianSpeer: You can find information at Thegabrielfoundation.org DDix0058_nr: ok, thanks so much :D PHCoosmom: Xue, your question please. PHXue: I want to know why avian vets are so hard to find, especially for those of us in rural areas.I know it's not a diet question, but it is a problem at times, especially in emergencies. And, why do so many seem to push pelleted diets? PHXue: and, why can't you give an excellent class on the EAST coast, lol DrBrianSpeer: There are many veterinarians who are willing to see and treat birds - hence the "moniker" of avian veterinarian. Wendy_nr: <---east coast too DDix0058_nr: Midwest here DrBrianSpeer: Those colleagues who do not work with birds should have one that they would recommend, should you ask. ginaspadafor_nr: <<-- 90 minutes from Dr. Speer! :) DDix0058_nr: ? PHXue: coos!! gina is bragging! Wendy_nr: lol DrBrianSpeer: But.. many veterinarians simply do not know much about these wonderful feathered animals, and hence cannot and should not really offer much advice, other than directions to a more informed source of info. PHCoosmom: DD your question please. DDix0058_nr: I do have a vet question. It seems when there's not medical problem for a bird plucking, it's always that the bird is bored, is that usually the case? PHXue: thanks DrBrianSpeer: We teach foraging in many veterinary coursework events - I did this in Las Vegas last week, Orlando in Jan, will do it in San Antonio in August. PHXue: ! DrBrianSpeer: A pellet base diet (formulated diet) is a very safe, easy base for starting on many, many aspects of pet parrot wellness management. It is not the only option, and it needs to be done properly to succeed. DrBrianSpeer: "Boredom" will not ever be diagnosed here as a primary problem in our practice. :-) DDix0058_nr: With my grey, I think it's a humidity, or lack there of problem DDix0058_nr: I have read a bit of yourbook :) PHCoosmom: Xue, your comment please? PHXue: I do have a male parrotlet who eats MUCH better if he has to forage for it. I was amazed at the difference it made DrBrianSpeer: A lack of the birds understanding how to do normal feather care, how to interact normally with their "flock", how to forage for food, how to play - - these are very real behavioral deficits that can and do lead to problems such as feather damaging issues, for sure. DDix0058_nr: the more I mist, the better his feathers look DrBrianSpeer: Increases in moisture on the feathers lead to increases in NORMAL preening, and a temporary reduction in abnormal preening / damaging. A part of a solution, rarely the complete answer. PHCoosmom: Dr. Speers, I heard your talk at AFA about correcting scissor beak. I have a 3 year old grey who has alignment problems with her lower beak. Other than working on it to straigten it with a dremel, can you suggest anything else? My avian vet is work with me on this. DrBrianSpeer: In the absence of a mechanical correction of the problem, periodic dremmeling will be needed to maintain the beak. Wendy_nr: ! PHCoosmom: From what we can see, it appears her problem is that she chews on wood with just the one side of her lower beak. IT wears down well. PHCoosmom: Any suggestions for encouraging her to use whole beak. PHCoosmom: Dr. Speers, thank you for being here tonight. As alway, we learn a lot from you. We also appreciate Gina being here. Thanks you as well. DrBrianSpeer: By embedding desired food items into wood blocks, manytimes we can encourage more normal chewing behavior. DrBrianSpeer: Another foraging, thing, if you think about it. touitwi: Thanks Dr Speers.Loging out.Good night all. PHCoosmom: I will try that, thank you. Had not thought of that trick. DrBrianSpeer: Thank you all! ginaspadafor_nr: Thanks, Dr. Speer! :) DrBrianSpeer: I gotta go too - my chicken patient just had a seizure, and need some tending to... PHCoosmom: Folks, Friday night is our evening with Mike Hutchison from Iowa Bird Rescue. Please come be with us Friday evening. DDix0058_nr: thanks so much, I am totally intrigued here, must read more of the book PHCoosmom: Good night Dr. Speers.
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